à qui avec Gabriel interview (2)

ーFirst question. Please tell me your activities when you released "Utsuho". Where did you have gigs?

At that time I didn't have any live show. I wanted to move on to a new way, so I put a new name on myself and recorded a new album. It was since 2003 that I started shows. And I often played at Penguin house Koenji and Loop-line Sendagaya. Unfortunately they closed down.

ーYou named yourself à qui avec Gabriel. What made you start activities different from before?

Over time I have realized that I want to express in my own way. I've been using this name since summer 2001.

ーYou weren't so interested in solo activities when you began to play the accordion.

No, I wasn’t very interested in solo at that time. Because I wanted to play in a band.

ーWhat types of bands would you like to do? Also did you play in any band since the receptionist band in your high school days?

Maybe I wanted to do something magical that the local band showed me in a school days. After Uketsukejo Band(receptionist band), I participated in 'Tumba Creole', a band of more than a dozen people who play African, Brazilian and Caribbean music. Except me they were admirable studio musicians. We often played at pit inn Roppongi in the mid 90's. After that I formed a trio band  'pneuma hectopascal'  with drummer Natsuaki Fumihisa and contrabassist Kawasaki Jun.

ーOh, Caribbean Music. I can't imagine from currentAki-san. What process did you participate in TumbaCreole ?  What kind of music did pneuma hectopascal play?

The leader of Tumba Creole was a member of the ethnic music circle I joined in college days, the start was reunion with him.We Pneuma improvised music by using some sound motifs.

ーAh, It is related to the ethnic music circle. I heard  Pneuma Hectopascal was the rock band.　Did you improvise rock music?

Yes, but it was not free improvisation and different from so-called Rock. At that time I was a little edgy, so I used to think " Just because playing guitar with long hair, it doesn't mean Rock!"

ーI see. Although I thought the formation of the accordion, the contrabass and the drum was peculiar as rock bands, the expression form of rock for Aki-san was Pneuma Hectopascal. By the way, was there music you were inspired when you played at Pneuma Hectopascal?

Well, I was getting inspiration from other than music. For example, the song "Children's Slave Rebellion" comes from Henry Darger's painting, and "Uzbek Keeper" comes from Nikita Mikhalkov's movie "Urga". Even though "Urga" is set in Mongolia,but while I was imagining it, I jumped into Uzbekistan(lol.) On a side note, the word 'O’zbek', which was the origin of the word ‘Uzbekistan', means "I am Master". I don't know what it really means, but I'd like to treat it meaning that "I am that I am.", in other words "Rock!". (lol.)

ー I know Aki-san's definition of Rock. By the way, when you watched the gig of the rock band in your teenage, you said you felt as if sounds were moving, moreover you're inspired from pictures and movies for music. Do you think you have so-called synesthesia？

I'm not sure whether it's synesthesia or not, but I think it's not uncommon to get inspiration from something else.

ーI see. You feel as if sounds were moving at a gig, It's the first time for me that I heard such a topic. so I'm interested in your experience. I haven't listened to sound sources, it strongly drives me to image the sound of Pneuma. If you were to say it, what sounds of groups do you think Pneuma is similar to?

If people were educated  "sound does not move or can not be seen",  such sense would be forgotten. Nothing’s coming to mind about what is similar to Pneuma.

ーFrom which year did you start to perform as Pneuma?

It had been active from 2005 to 2007, but we hadn't plan to release our sound source. I didn't have feeling to record because of my own inmaturity. I wanted to play more like musical composition by improvisation but it was not going well. If I could sing at that time, I might have been able to make a difference. Unfortunately we haven't been active recently but Pneuma hectopascal was good experiences for me, because of brilliant musicians Natsuaki-san and Kawasaki-san.

ーI feel the concept that you create things like a musical piece by improvisation is so unique. I regret again I couldn't watch your gig. By the way, when did you start to sing? What triggered that?

After Pneuma, I've always thought my solo playing is "Pneuma for alone", so if you listen to,  may be able to get feeling something what I wanted to do in the band. My singing was gradually, and having no special trigger. Since some time ago I wanted to sing, but I was feeling something strange with singing with accordion. I was feeling limited that breathing to sing while breathing to move the bellows. Meanwhile, I started playing with various musicians, and the number of scenes where I could let go of my instrument and singing oppotunity was increasing. Among them, a friend of mine Michel Henritzi who loves Japanese Enka said, "Let's play Fuji Keiko songs together." (Fuji Keiko is a famous Enka star. ) That's why I started to cover Enka.

ーI see. Aki-san started to sing Enka by asking from Mr. Michel. What made you by meeting and collaboration with Mr, Michel?

I met Michel about 10 years ago at Penguin House in Koenji and started playing with him naturally. He just told me, "Let's play Enka." so he didn't mean he recommended that I sing. But I decided to sing. (lol.) And we made an album "Koyonaku" together that covers Enka and Mood kayō.  Also he organized my first Europe tour in a duo with Mico from No Neck Blues Band, and he gave me many opportunities to perform in Europe after that. He is a brilliant musician and also introducer of many Japanese musicians to Europe such as Junko from Hijokaidan, Masayoshi Uranabe, Tetuzi Akiyama, Kan Mikami, Kazuki Tomokawa and so on. A book about the Japanese underground scene he wrote was recently published in France.

ーMr. Michel was the existence which expanded the range of Aki-san's musical activities. How was the European tour with Mico-san? Actually, I don't know Mico-san much, so can you tell me about her in first?

That's right, Michel expanded range of my musical activities. Mico is a member of well-known No Neck Blues Band, and in a good way, she's more than just a musician. The tour with Mico was such an interesting experience that I might have wrote a book. No one knows what comes out next from her such as pianica, piano, voice, and physical expression. When I played with her, in a few times I was just there without doing anything, because Mico was too wonderful! One of them seemed to be a miracle. When we performed in a large abandoned mine like a gymnasium in Saint-Etienne, a lost bird began to sing, and Mico responded with her whistle like a conversation for a while. It was so beautiful. It is precisely this kind of person is a real improviser, I thought. And she is a charming woman, so it was really fun to be with her.

ーBy the way, please tell me your album "Koyonaku" with Mr. Michel. Songs like "Kasuba No Onna" "Ginza No Koi No Monogatari" of Kayokyoku in the Showa era are listed on it. What made you select such songs? Also, did Aki-san listen to songs in the Showa era for some time?

I chose it because I wanted to sing a song that I used to listen to as a nostalgic older era song when I was a kid. Only "Kosame no Oka" is a song I listened after growing up. It was at a mysterious restaurant "Intermediate Eurasian Restaurant Ganso Hinomaruken", where I used to work part-time, only prewar Showa Kayo was played there. I was addicted to it. So it was those Showa songs when I got Gabriel (accordion) and played on the street first.

ーReleased in 2016, was ”Koyonaku“ the work which made Aki-san return to basics in a sense? Also, it was recorded in France. The extremely raw recording was as if I watched your performance in front of me. Can you tell me how was the situation of the recording at this time?

I felt it was not 'returning to basics', I was trying something new. Because I was just starting to sing. The recording was done by Kevin Le Quellec, a drummer from a hardcore band 'Le Singe Blanc' at his basement studio in Metz. The studio had a profound atmosphere and that was a place where the performers souls was imprinted. If it sounds raw, it's probably because Kevin has a sense of recording and there is the energy of that studio. It was difficult to balance of voice, accordion, and explosive guitar, so three of us worked together while giving ideas.

ーI remember my favorite group, Electric wizard's masterpiece "Come my fanatics" was also recorded in the ruin of a bank. Such circumstances also affect recordings. Is "I'm not similar to Anyone else" the original song? Was there a reason you recorded not only cover songs, but also an original song?

Yes, I think Electric Wizard also feel the sound and energy of the place, and then choose the recording location. Exactly it is original song. At first we were planning to record only cover song, but proceeded with the recording, we realized it would become the duration might not be enough for album.(lol.)  So I took out my poem for it. It would have been good if I could cover other Enka song,  but at that time there were still few songs that I could sing.

ーI see your circumstances. Then, you published the split ep "情趣演歌" with Tori Kudo in 2015, which is the same season as release of "Koyonaku". Can you tell me the background for making this work?

Michel asked me whether I would be interested in that his friend Cedric makes a series of Enka covers split vinyl "情趣演歌 enka mood collection" on his label An'archive.  Yes, I wanted to do. Thus I covered "Onna no Blues," "Suki ni natta hito, "and" Minatomachi Blues" with piano. Kudo-san is singing “YANAGASE Blues,” “TOKYO Blues” and “Hone made aishite” at karaoke on his side.

ーWere you acquainted with Mr.Tori Kudo whose songs were recorded in this split vinyl before?

The combination of splits was decided by Cedric. I had once played together with Kudo-san before that. While on going process of this vinyl,  I went to America with his band Maher Shalal Hash Baz and Ché-SHIZU for the tour called 'Minor Musics Japan Tour.'  ....! My friend musician Che Chen had the courage to organized this strange tour.

ーWhat types of music does Che Chen play? Also, Can you tell me stories about "Minor music Japan tour'?

Che Chen is a guitarist of a solid experimental band 75 Dollar Bill in New York. He is quite familiar with ethnic music, so I think he also has an aspect like a ethnomusicologist. In addition, he is really good guy! During the tour he took care of us while playing as a member of Ché-Shizu and Mahel.Starting with the California Institute of the Arts open-air concert hall, we toured aroud Gallery Chin’s Push in L.A, Crowley Theater in desert town Marfa Texas, Museum of Contemporary Art in Detroit, and ISSUE Project Room in Brooklyn. Every place was impressive, and it was like a mysterious story, including the people living there.  Before departure the people around me asked "it's a tour with people with strong personalities, is it okay for you? "(lol.) But in this adventure story,  all the characters including the Maher members who appeared turn one after another each venue were quite the actors, and casting was perfect. Thanks to Che Chen, I could sneak into this marvelous tour and have such an interesting experience.

ーReturning to the topic of ”Enka Mood Collection", I think a collection of covers of Enka was new at that time. How was the reaction from listeners?

Well, there were pros and cons to the fact that I started singing, not about the Enka cover. I started singing with piano instead of accordion, so one said, "Your name is ' avec Gabriel, isn’t it?"  The other said "You're accordionist, not singer”. Maybe they felt something wrong with my doing. On the other hand some people said," I like it !"  My strict Senpai praised this small work. Some people requested to cover their favorite songs. And another person continued to send me so many sound sources and videos of song recommendations. So I was very happy. In any case, if they felt something from my music, even if it includes criticism, I am content.

ーI know there were such criticisms now. How did you feel by yourself when you started to sing songs without the accordion?

There was a feeling that the possibilities were expanding so that I could express my music more freely. I tried to find out how to play the piano in my own way, or I realized the fun of the accordion again by not playing it, also I enjoyed covering in itself, so I was pumped up.(lol.)

ーWhat was the standard when you selected the songs?  Also, did you have other songs you planned to record?

At a bar Uramado Shinjuku Golden Gai, the owner Fukuoka-san played Fuji Keiko's record on for Michel who likes Fuji Keiko. That was "Onna no Blues(Woman's Blues)."  At that time, there was feeling "This is it."  After that I chose famous songs, Miyako Harumi's "Sukini natta hito(The man I love)" and  Mori Shinichi's "Minatomachi Blues(port town Blues)". Because it would be more fun that listners know what it is covered. Other than that, I like the lyrics of Kawauchi Kohan, so I thought about his lyric "Kimi koso waga inochi(You are my life)", "Awazuni aishite(Love me even if we couldn't meet)",  and "Dare yorimo kimi wo aisu(I love you more than anyone else)". However, I felt they were more like Mood kayō than Enka, so in the end I decided on three songs feeling more Enka. Do you know these songs, Hori-san?

ーI know " Onna no blues” only somehow, but I didn't know the oher songs. By the way, although it goes back to the past age, you  released the cds you collaborated with Majutsu no niwa and Makoto Kawabata in 2012. Can you tell me the course of events as to how you played with them?

I see. Younger generation less chace to listen to Enka. I met Fukuoka Rinji-san of Majutsu no niwa through sachiko-san a bassist of Kousokuya, and started playing. And I met Kawabata-san through Suzuki Junzo-san. I played with Kawabata-san in his live series at the Smith Memorial Hall in Hikone. Since then we have sometimes performed together.

ーI listened to your joint work "Number five works Ⅱ" with Majutsu no niwa. Although I wondered how you match the intense sounds of psychedelic rock with the accordion before listening to the cd, the slow and soft performance by Majutsu no niwa exactly fits Aki-san's accordion. How did you talk about the direction of this work before playing together?

Thank you. In advance, Fukuoka-san said it was an acoustic version of the two-part work, and he lent me a manga set in Fukuoka's hometown Hokkaido as a hint for the songs. Maybe that's all. We had never talked about the direction of the work. Because each beautiful song itself suggested the direction.  But at the mixing stage, we talked a lot. It made me aware of something new.

ーI see. This work was released as the duology, "Ⅱ" was the acoustic version. What did you find when you discussed mixing?

I had to put my sense by words more than usual, so it made me aware about my sense more than before.

ーThat's right. How did Mr. Fukuoka think about mixing？

Well, he seemed to want to fill the entire space with sound. It was feeling like sound coveres the room same as a loud live venue. But I wanted something like a blank space where the sound didn't reach. Because that way, the walls disappear and we can feel the spatial spread. And it feels like going to the larger space. Do you know what I mean?

ーYes. Aki-san put an emphasis on so called "Ma". When I listened to the cd, I felt the mix of this work was finished close to Aki-san's way of thinking. How was the discussion about mix settled?

You have good ears, Hori-san. I guess you’re right. Mixing was done by Fukuoka-san himself, so we tried them while talking like "let's try this way” "more humid?", and decided by experiencing.

ーI feel the whole sound is fluffy softness and the scenery like snow scenes flash into my mind. Every song is great and the track 1 "Shiosai" which Aki-san also takes backing vocal is especially impressive for me. Can you tell me the episode of this track when you recorded?

I’m glad you have a beautiful image about it. Toshimitsu Akiko-san guided me so that we could sing together well at studio in Ogikubo. I think this song was the first recording of this album. Actually I don't remember exactly, because it's long ago.

ーI see. When this album was released, did you perform a concert or tour? If you did, can you tell me the reaction at that time?

We didn't have any live concerts or tours. I don't remember why we didn't them (lol).  Actually, it's difficult to balance between massively loud rock band and accordion at live show together. There are ways to attach contact microphone to accordion or use with a preamplifier. But I don't want to use a contact microphone as much as possible because I make the dynamics by moving accordion closer to or further from the stand microphone. And also preamplifier changes the sound what I want to ring.  So maybe I said it was difficult to do. Or maybe it was because Kageyama-san on bass quit the band after this.

ーGot it. There are no records of the live performance on Aki-san's website, I'd like to confirm it. Then,  I have a question about " Golden tree" that collaborated with Makoto Kawabata. Can you tell me the background you created for this work?

I think after doing a live show together, we decided to record.

ー”Golden tree " is finished the large-scale work which contains three long songs and the element of drone. Were there concepts or images among the two of you before creating this work ?

In advance, there was no concept or image. When I heard the recorded sound, something like 'World Tree'  came to my mind, so I named it "Golden Tree". If you feel large-scale, it would be because of Kawabata-san. Whenever I play together, I feel like I'm taken to universe.

ーIt was the work you completely created by improvisation. Concretely, what sounds made you call to mind World tree?

It's about sensory thing, so it may be difficult to explain concretely. It may be possible to say something like plausible afterwards, but this is not logical thing, it is about image or sense.

ーThat's right. Then, what does the world tree mean to Aki-san? Did you attach to it?

No, I didn't. It is an image that came to my mind when I heard our recorded sound. One image that this world is made of a single tree is tremendous.  That stirs up my imagination, and reminds me the free feeling that we can see this world through our own perspective each and everyone of us.

ーActually, I'm not familiar with world tree. So, I wonder how you knew it. It appears unfamiliar words "Himorogi", "Rinkan" "Boro" in the track titles. Can you tell me the story you decided to such titles?

Ok, the world tree appears in the myths of various countries. I'm telling about "imagination". It's not serious story. I don't have a particular message I want to convey, or I don't have limitation that I want you understand it like this. Beyond those things, there is a kind of playfulness. It's up to the person who captures what and how to imagine it. The title is "Golden tree", not the world tree. I'd like to say as Bruce Lee said, "Don't think! Feel!" (lol)

ーI understand your intention. I guessed there were some kind of especial meanings or episodes, because you used the words I haven't seen. You released "Ama no Tsurugi" collaborated with Mr.　Kawabata again in the following year of "Golden Tree". It seems that the recording date is same as "Golden Tree", would you release it as the duology from first?

Well, it maybe easy to understand if you would think each titles are small poem. It would be nice if Japanese and English title give you some inspiration while listening to the album. From the beginning we didn't think it became 2 albums. There is no way to plan about improvisation stuff.

ーI see. You also collaborated with Mr. Kawabata at gigs several times other than these 2 albums. What existence is Mr. Kawabata as a musician for Aki-San?

When I play with Kawabata-san, I always feel like I'm taken to space. Before I knew it, I'm in space.(lol.)  I think it's a tremendous-scale, whether it's solo, duo, or Acid Mothers Temple. So I feel sound flows out from him like a dignified river.

ーYou visited to various venues like Kansai and Shikoku for the tour with Mr. Kawabata. Can you tell me the most impressive episode among them？

It's difficult to choose one episode, I enjoyed the tour while feeling each place and people there. Anyway during the tour we drunk a lot and talked a lot. Kawabata-san and people around him are very interesting, so I feel something abundance. I think those things also be music and become sound. I can't explain it well,  but if you go to Kawabata-san's live concert or read his blog, you may understand about my feelings.

ーYou uploaded a new song "Harari" on youtube in 2019. I felt it's different from the past Aki-san's tracks. How do you feel it by yourself? Can you tell me your plan about the future activity?

Actually “ha-ra-ri" is the past track recorded in 2013. For me, just doing naturally, but I understand your feeling.  I think it may be because of voice-layering. And about the future activity, I’m not sure yet. I’m going to give à qui avec Gabriel's activities a rest. I'll be doing something new.

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à qui avec Gabriel interview (1)

 ーYou wrote 'The unit of a musician à qui with the accordion Gabriel‘  in your biography, it is  so unique that you personified an instrumental as a part of the unit name. Why did you name it?

I did it without giving it much thought. When I would like to start my solo activity with a new name, someone gave me an idea ‘ You call your accordion “Gabriel”,  so you could call  “Aki (the real name)with Gabriel”, right? ’  Then it became ‘à qui avec Gabriel’ by making a play on French words, and because in France there are so many special existence I love. Gabriel is named after an archangel though I didn't mean to personify it. In the beginning the impression of my accordion was so horrify, so I would have like to feel more closer to my instrument by giving the name.

ーIt’s so unique and the wonderful name that I’ve wondered the reason why you named à qui avec Gabriel.　

Thank you. I heard this name irritates a few people.(lol)

ーWhy did you feel to fear against the accordion？

At first, its size. Anyway it is so large. When I took it out from the instrument shop, I felt ‘I failed?’ because it is incredibly heavy ! It is 10kg. I remember... I toddled with my heavy instrument and reached to the Ochanomizu station from the shop, and waited a train with thinking how I could carrying it ever after with dark feeling.

I was relived because I understood tips for carrying it after all. It’s really ridiculous. And regarding playing a sound, at the beginning I couldn’t move bellows well due to the large size. As if I was forced to play by my instrument. It seemed to be extending and shrinking by its own will. It was like a strange creature, so perhaps I felt fear. If I selected a smaller accordion, I might not have such feeling.

ーAlthough playing the accordion is elegant impression for the audience, you struggled for such things.

It's different from struggling, anyway far from elegant.(lol)

ーYou have been played even now. So, it is exactly fate that you selected the accordion there.

Yes, I feel like a kind of destiny with my instrument.

ーYou belonged to a club of ethnic music when you were a university student. What did you do in the club?

I went to a place to learn the sitar and tabla. In that place the members played with ethnic instrument not only Indian music but also music of various countries. So I joined in them naturally. I wore ethnic clothes and cooked ethnic foods there. I think back on it now, I was in a strange world. And I encountered an accordion there. I think the first song I played by accordion was the Egyptian popular song.

ーYou were particular about the clothes and the foods. So, you got into ethnic music deeply.

I think I was so odd at that time (bitter smile).

ーYou called ‘Accordion Punk’ by yourself. Had you listened to punk before you started to play the accordion.

‘Accordion punk’ isn’t about music genre but just a catchphrase for me, because no one knows who I am and where I came from.  It’s like ‘My style is different from a standard accordion playing you have imagined’. My friend musician ‘midoriyama’ who often organized the events together introduced me to the audience as ‘Accordion punker, Aki-san’. So it was a kind of rip-off!  But I haven’t used this catchphrase because recently I play not only the accordion but also the other instruments.

ーI see the origin. Exactly, we know well you aren’t an ordinal accordion player by the catchphrase.

People have a stereotyped image of accordion, therefore I appreciate this catchphrase.

ーThen, how did you get into music originally? What music did you listen to before ethnic music?

When I was a child, my father played records frequently like Harry Belafonte, Trio los Panchos or such things. The first record he purchased for me was ‘Kojin Jugyo (Private Lesson)’ by Japanese 70’s idle ‘Finger 5’. The guitar sounds of the introduction fascinated me. Having said that at that time I didn’t know that was the sound of guitar, haha. I think ‘Kayoukyoku(Japanese pops)’on TV might have the most impact on me in those days.

In junior high school I came to like the local rock band. They played cover songs of ‘The Who’, so I had became to listen to foreign music.  Additionally in high school I borrowed many records of Japanese music from my friends. I listened to the music from ordinary pops to popular in those days like Jun Togawa or Zelda. I didnit care about the genre. After moving to Tokyo, I came to search for various music by myself.

 

To your question ‘What music did you listened to before Ethnic music?’, my answer is mentioned before roughly. And to your second question ‘How did you get into music originally?’, my answer is straight like ‘The encounter with my favorite local rock band is the entrance.’ When I listen to it now, it makes me feel little embarrassed because it’s nothing special, but at that time their performance seemed supernatural for me. Perhaps one of the reason why I feel so is because it was my first experience of live music with the loud electric sound. But the main reason is because I felt their sound had entered into their bodies and moved around in each body and then burst out from each body by their body movement again. Thus I felt ‘I wanna do like that !’ And when I was the third grade at high school, I formed the ‘Gal-ban’, so-called today ‘ Girls band’ and performed at gigs. But it was so terrible, haha.

ーYou listened to mainly stuffs of rock related music before. You mentioned the sound were visualized by watching the gig. Did that experience make you select the accordion as your instrumental later?

I just felt I could watch the linkage between the sound and the body movement rather than sound visualization. But I think that wasn't the reason, because I was not concious of it clearly. Luckily I could play keyboards and I like ethnic music,  so I choose the accordion without thinking deeply.  But if I make a story as Hori-san mentioned, it will ring true.

ーHow was the music of the gal band Aki-san joined? Absolutely, I’ d like to listen to the sound source if it was remained.

I tried to find the recorded material, but I couldn’t... I think it is lucky, because there was nothing special about our music. We just gathered by all momentum that ‘We wanna do something!’. And our drummer could only play metal drumming, then no matter what we played, all our tunes became heavy metal. Moreover, our vocalist didn’t sing normally and played a weird performance. So we were in the state of chaotic comic band. Without any preparation as it is, we made it to the semifinal of music contest YAMAHA. So we were treated as strange outsider.

ーThe band is cool, isn’t it? By the way, what is the band name ?

The band name is ‘Uketsukejou band(The reception woman band)’. We had full of fun because we thought ‘We are free to do anything we want !’  In other words we didn’t have any feeling to attune sound to the other member. And to tell the trues,  Our technique was too poor to attune sound to the others. So it was funny and fun.

ーThen, what activities had you done until your debut album ‘Utsuho’ was released since you encountered with the accordion at the ethnic music club?

After a while I quit the ethnic circle, and started to play music on a street corner with my friends. We played Showa songs in the pre-war era by Shamisen, Ko-kyu and accordion, or old jazz and musette by duo with guitar. And then I participated in the unit of Satsuma Biwa, in addition the latin band formed with more than 10 members. In that situation I have to play songs according to the score. So I wanted to play in band again that the spirit of ‘We are free to do anything we want !’ . And I tried to play like that with some musicians in the studio, but it was not going well. So I started to play solo work and sent the demo tape to the label Tzadik.

ーYou played with various instrumental players since your early activities. I feel your music is free music in a real meaning without a fixed idea. I’m surprised you have the flexibility of instrumental combination  and you have played versatile genre of music.

I’m glad you say so because I thought it looks the unprincipled.

ーWhy did you send your demo tape to Tzadik?

In most cases people might ignore obscure musicians small demo tapes, but I thought John Zorn would listen once to them. So I sent my demo tape to him.

ーExactly, John Zorn has dealt with the wide range of music without a genre and he has been familiar with the Japanese underground music.

His background you mentioned doesn't matter. I don't know why I thought, but I felt there is no doubt John-san would try to listen once to the demo tape, even if it made by unknown musician.  And my intuition was right, he said he listen to all demo tapes he received.

ーIn first, I’d like to ask the title before the contents of your debut album. You select words which seem to appear in classical literature like ”Utsuho”, thelatest song “Harari” or “Awai”. Did you read such literature often?

I hesitate to say that I read them often, but I absolutely love the world of Japanese classical literature. When I read Japanese medieval stories, I feel it takes me from here to the another real world. I like it very much. People in the story feel what is unseen and living with them as reality.  They see myriads of Gods in nature for example mountain, river, grass and trees, and they seem to go back and forth between the nature and the supernatural by using such sense. I'm attracted to them.

My album“Utsuho” was given the image from “Utsuho Monogatari(The Tale of the Hollow Tree)” filled with such strange atmosphere. It’s a magnificent story which the marvelous origin Koto and transcending the secret technique of it hands down from parents to children for generations.

Utsuho is a cavity in the tree which occurs by breaking a branch or thunder striking. In the story, people live in the cavity of big cedar trees, and they hand down the technique of the Koto and secret songs. An instrument Koto has a cavity inside, also there is a cavity inside of the accordion. Moreover each character in the story seems to have hollow in their heart from their grief. This story gave me an idea that like when something come to the hollow, something new is born.

I feel each Japanese classical story itself was born in such way. It was often said there was the Shamanic origin in ethnology. I try to use the word Shamanic as little as possible. Because if people listening this word they treat it just like occult thing. What I mean is “UTSUHO monogatari-The Tale of the Hollow Tree” seems to be a collaboration between human and what is unseen.

In the same way,“Harari”and “Awai” are words which could spread our imagination. If I say “ Hanabira ga Harari to Chiru ( Flower petals are falling)”, the sound“Harari” would include a sound in itself as falling. I think it's interesting that the Japanese-specific feeling of "ma" and the feeling of 'going within between' are integrated in one word "awai". I get such various images from Japanese classical literature.

ーI understand the meaning of the word “Utsuho” has that deep meaning. I think music is originally shamanic, so ritualistic and risky. However, many music in the capitalistic world which is based on the mass production is removed such elements. Then, most people don’t realize those essence.

I feel it's not just a music thing, but the senses of ancient people and modern people are quite different. On the contrary there is a case modern people can feel something but ancient people can’t so, so it's not necessarily a negative story. In any case, if people can’t feel something naturally by themselves, it makes me scared because people might be tamed gradually without knowing it.

ーWhen I hear people incline to Japanese classical literature, I imaged they wear kimonos and express just like Japanese traditional music, but Aki-san doesn’t do so. Utsuho includes the eastern elements like using Shakuhachi, but you compose mixing western elements like jazz, classical music, avant-garde etc.. I think this great complexity is one of attraction of Utsuho. How do you feel about that?

At that time I thought if I were the person who would belong to the genealogy of Japanese classical literature how would I inherit. I think the album 'Utsuho' is a simple stuff. I didn’t intend to mix different genres together, also I wasn’t conscious of the specific genres.

ーI see. It was an idea that you connect to a linage of Japanese classical literature.

It may sound kind of arrogant but it’s an idea like "if I could belong to its genealogy what can I do?" There is a dialogue book between Kenji Nakagami and Toji Kamata called "Kotodama no ametsuchi (Heaven and earth by the energy of soul language)", in this book they talked about as mentioned above origin of Japanese classical literature, sense of Japanese people ,and so on,. They are worried as writers and deplored that "There is only a little person who can belong to the genealogy of Japanese classical literature."  I read this book about 20 years ago, and it is classical literature that the process of creating something by Japanese people remains in an easy-to-understand form, and there are same process in Japanese music and Mai(Japanese traditional dance)I thought. When I create something, I also have same feeling, "Where does it come from?" That's why I was really charmed by Japanese classical literature.

ーIs the process of the creation the ”Shermanic”process as you mentioned before?

Simply speaking, so it is.  I wouldn’t like to use the word “Sharmanic” because if I say that word,  we would feel it has an ability something special. I think anyone has such a sense.

ーI’d like to pick up ‘Harari”later. You have been tremendously inspired from the classical literature. From when did you get used to it?

Since I was a junior high school student. I spent a classroom hour to reading a textbook of Japanese classical literature, not listening to a teacher.  There were its series of Nichieisha. When I read them, the darkness of jet black was spreading , in spite of reading a textbook.  And it might be a big thing for me that I encountered lyrics or stories of Kenji Miyazawa also, when I was an elementary school student. They weren’t Classical literature, but it is said that the process of Kenji’s creation is similar to the process of the Japanese classical literature creation.

ーIt’s difficult for Western people to under stand the concept of “Ma”. I guess it may be created because Japan is the so-called high-context culture which people are good at “Guessing from the situation ”reading between the lines”.

Both in the East and in the West, anyone has the sense for looking invisible things, but I feel there is something peculiar about Japanese people.

ーExactly, the view of the world is different from monotheism of West and Islam. Being high-context may be disadvantage in the business scene which dislike ambiguity, but it may make the uniqueness in the art and music scene.

I feel that's why it may be a one of the big factor that so many foreign listeners are interested in the Japanese underground scene.

ーThe Japanese underground/noise music scene is so peculiar that they are said"How can they such crazy sounds?" foreign listeners

It is previously mentioned explanation “Simply speaking” is the answer of “How can they create such sounds?”

ーIt’s like the sounds one can’t discharge when one are thinking in one’s head, the sounds beyond logic. I have rarely played instrumentals, so it’s just my image.

That's right. It’s difficult to explain, but I feel it’s the sound that the performer himself also is surprised and say “What ?!”

ーThe Kenji Miyazawa’s poetry collection,“Spring and Ashura ” was titled on Utsuho. Is this song dedicated to Kenji?

It was my experiment to transform ’Spring and Ashura’ (which is the poem same as the title of collection of poems) into the sound.

ーIt seems that it’s difficult to transform words to sounds. How was it actually?

Even if you say 'the words', so they are ‘poem’,  I tried to make it into the sounds by helping the energy of imagination

ーIn the name of à qui avec Gabriel, titles of songs in “Utsuho” are written in Japanese including the album title and various kinds of music were packed. I think such complex composition of “Utsuho” is the elements of uniqueness.

It's Interesting that you grab my music in such that way. I made it myself and feel it more simple, but I think it almost depends on sense of each listeners.

ー“Utsuho” is the solo work, but 7 musicians are participated in Utsuho as guests. How was the process of creation?

I don't know I could say 'there is a process', because it was simple that I just recorded and mixed and as guests I got musicians who I knew.

ーMr. Keiji Haino also participates as a guest. I heard Haino-san performed in the gig of Zenigeva, you knew him at the venue in your another interview, is it right? Can you tell me the impression you watched the performance of Haino-san first？

Yes. I met Haino-san for the first time, at the live gig organized by Zeni Geva. He played with K.K. Null-san, Mitsuru Tabata-san did with Hayakawa-san of Kirihito, and I did with Masataka Fujikake-san and Ko Morota-san of Doom. I remember having thought that performance of Haino-san was something explosive and it seemed like Mai (Japanese traditional dance).

ーDid you and Haino-san have musical friendship from that gig to the performance in Utsuho as a guest?

I had never played music together before recording 'Utsuho’.

ーCan you tell me the impression and the episode when you collaborated with Haino-san in “Utsuho”?

‘I couldn't do anything about that.’ it’s my honest impression (bitter smile), but that experience gave me curious feeling like ‘Oh, it’s OK to play more freely.’

ーAnyway, the combination of the trio by Aki-san, Fujikake-san and Morota-san is so great. How was the performance?

We played an Afghanistan song by my request. I think we played improvisation other than it.

ーWas the Afghanistan song ethnic music?

Yes. I think it was like a middle of folk song and pops.

ーBy the way, where did you take photos of the sleeve of“Utsuho”? It’s kind of mystic and very atmospheric.

It is a forest at the shrine in Harajuku. It is an artificial forest, but it is natural and dense forest that I can’t believe it’s artificial. It makes me feel particular atmosphere. I was welcomed in by a large and marvelous 'Utsuho’.

ーI see. I have imagined you had took photos in a mountain, because trees on the photos were so tall.

Exactly, we can see as if it is in the mountain despite it located in the metropolis of Tokyo. It is very interesting that a forest seen like that was created by human and it becomes a kind of sanctuary. (to be continued)

New Nambu (15) "Me and Minor 1"

Text:Onnyk

Though I think most of people who are reading this article could not come, but there was the event organized by Deadstock Records at Pikopikocafe in Kichijoji on May 29 th this year(2016). The event name was　“Listen to Japanese extreme music ～Never Ending Kichijoji Minor & The Fifth Column”, the content was listening to mainly sound sources recorded at ”Minor”, the venue in Kichijoji which existed from 1978 to 1980.

Three member including Onnyk (me), Geso and Satoshi Sonoda brought sound sources at Minor and exposed a lot of flyers and free magazines those days. I and Geso have acted together under the name of The Fifth Column and released Box Sets recently. Mr. Sonoda organized “Free Music Space”, the series of concerts where various performers appeared some places in Tokyo later 1970’s. Harumi Yamazeki came to the event and talked, and he added information on some recordings, I felt very fast four hours have passed. I won’t report about the event again. However, I will only express the thoughts that I couldn’t talk at that time.
The year I started musical activity with my friends as The fifth column is around 1976. It was 1979 that “Minor” began a business. I can say the age of struggling music was transition period in Japan. Punk or Techno was in fashion and they were separated into fractions by regions, parties or styles. Independent labels called “Indies” sprang up like “bamboo erupts after a rain” (It’s a stereotype expression in Japanese). In Japan, modern jazz became popular in 1960’s and free jazz reared up in later 60’s. There were a group of musicians claimed anti-establishment and believed in radical sounds. That is, they would never be interested in entertainment.

I think Masayuki Takayanagi was a typical. I can say he expressed music as Ressentiment (anger). Also in the 1960s the hedonistic rock aimed hippisim was beaten in quality and quantity a more pleasant new style (it looks like promotion of idols) produced by mass media, the 1970s it was going to take a commercialism or survive in the underground.

For example I applied Mopps in the first case and Yuya Uchida in the later case. How was the movement of avant-garde or experimental music apart from these streamline? In 1970, Osaka World Expo, those abortive flowers bloomed, but after full bloom they were tapering. The 60’s avant-garde was a world of composers based on academic school ( Takemitsu, Mayuzumi and Ichiyanagi as representatives). Musicians who has the new left- wing consciousness against them appeared. An elite, Ryuichi Sakamoto who organized cutting-edge musical groups and was called around people he did the most radical saying and doing createed the group called “ Gakusyuudan (Learning Group) ”.

This was a group including various artists who were non musician. Perhaps, he might be inspired by “Scratch Orchestra”by Cornelius Cardew, an UK composer. The magazine called “Douzidaiongaku ( Music of our time )“, was published by Kenichi Takeda and his colleague. Takeda, a Taisho Koto performer, released a critic book “Music wriggled in the ground” recently. “Douzidaiongaku“ suggested the these, propaganda or methods and so on. In those texts, you can see Sakamoto who was radical and posed a fight against the establishment. However, Sakamoto changed his way completely soon after YMO succeed.

Kenichi Takeda who appeared at Minor many times, reminded those days as a close friend of Sakamoto before YMO’s success. A producer of a masterpiece “Disapointment Hateruma”is also Kenichi Takeda. It was co-performed by Sakamoto and a percussionist Toshiyuki Tsuchitori (Tsuchitori was playing with Toshinori Konco etc., then he went to US to be taught by Milford Graves, a one of pioneer of free jazz drumming, and traveled around the world to learn various percussions. He came up big as music director Peter Brook Company, returning Japan he played, researched, composed and recorded based on Jomon culture. He had continued to co-work with a Shamisen player of Momoyoma fraction, until Harue Momoyama died.) Yoshitaka Gotoh who fought with Takeda and Sakamoto established a unique label “Pass” under Trio Records and they realized a collaboration between Sakamoto and Phew who was a leader of very popular group at that time,“Aunt Sally”. 

Phew appeared on each medium as a opinion leader with Machizou Machida of INU ( Later, Kou Machida) who was paid attention in Kansai in the changing time from later 70’s to 80’s. A former member of Japanese communist party, an activist, a writer. a poet and a son of a noble Seizi Tsutsumi became a leader of Saison Group and produced “youth culture” which represented Parco. Everyone took into Seibu’s strategies.consciously or unconsciously. Nam Jun Pike who cut necktie of John Cage, Jospeh Beuys who said “Capitalism will finish soon” were also the puppet of such stream. The price value of a rebellious artists group“ Fluxus ” soared. It aimed Bubble economy in that age.

When I felt gloomy in the country of Tohoku Region in the middle of 70’s, “Improvisation～Free Music” appeared like revelation. As Derek Baily or Han Bennink Records, if I say more concrete. Honestly, I knew nothing about the reviews of such musicians by Akira Aida or someone. It was case that I could call a coincidental encounter. Their style and the idea of“Non idiomatic improvisation” grew up in my mind. It was very personal but it seemed to grew up as ”Response to free jazz from Europe” worldly.

I thought that Free Music is defined as the one had the distance to Jazz, Rock, Contemporary Compositions or any kind of the ethnic musics, not regarded its origin, and should be played as depending on the wills of performers or the belief among co- performers. We can’t help doing that. I thought it “Ultimate Music”. But, was it Music basically? It was important that it based on individualism and democracy in European, and it was definitely different form “ free jazz as musical expression of Afro-American’s fighting idea to the system ” or “Japanese style which imitate a surface of free jazz”. This is the reason I must called Japanese free jazz “False Free Jazz”. But, I won’t trivialize it.

Japanese free jazz was not born of race discrimination, civil rights struggle, exploitation of jazz musicians or crushing situation. Also, it was not born out of the origin regression consciousness of black music (even if it may be a kind of illusion). Japanese free jazz has been accepted as a style more than anything. So, rather than free jazz, free music could be fitted with the situation in Japan beyond Europe. Many of European free music promoters were musicians who“had learned” jazz or classic, because they were serious to complete music as Music.

It may be said that "Japanese jazz performers are serious too!" However, the level of the orchestral performance based on European classical knowledge, even in amateurs, but in amateur level it is in a completely different class from Japanese ones (as you must remember that so-called “classical music”’s origin is the ethnic music of Western europe). In that sense, I think that the omnivorousness of Japanese amateurs was consistent with the borderless of free music. However, from the viewpoint that free music originating in Western Europe had an ethnic base of so-called individualism and democracy, it can not be said that Japan had eurocentric individualism and democracy. More than anything, the economic situation of Japan was good at making medium absorbing and distributing the world's music culture. In other words. Japan was transformed into a crucible of music of the world, temporal and synchronous music. That was the latter half of the 1970s, and it was the background of "minor" being born. (cont'd)